Is TripAdvisor committing a travel scam when they claim to offer “real hotel reviews you can trust”
We will be taking a lot at all sorts of travel scams by online travel sites and bloggers which obscure the truth about travel and confuse the spirit of free speech.
We will start with this little gem recieved from the very talented and creative people at Trout Point Lodge of Nova Scotia. There is much more in store including eery details about TripAdvisor practices and policies!!!!
All are welcome to comment and share their stories here.
Press Release:
TripAdvisor meets out “punishment” and “official notices” over intellectual property policies it doesn’t like
Canadian lodge clashes with travel review giant and claims deceptive trade practices
September 17, 2011
For Immediate Release
East Kemptville NS The online travel review site TripAdvisor stands to loose its lucrative control over hotel, restaurant, and vacation rental reviews submitted to it by most-often anonymous sources. And guests of one small hotel stand to gain an additional measure of peace and privacy. Currently, TripAdvisor, LLC’s web site conditions include language giving “TripAdvisor and its affiliates a nonexclusive, royalty-free, perpetual, transferable, irrevocable and fully sublicensable right to” all submissions received from users of the site. TripAdvisor earns income from advertising and also providing reservation links to sites like Expedia and hotels.com that are part of businessman Barry Diller’s media empire. Without the new content constantly provided for free by users—which is then copyrighted by TripAdvisor–the site would loose income.
Although TripAdvisor claims to have “real hotel reviews you can trust” and to not allow reviews that are, among other things, “libelous, defamatory, . . . harassing, threatening, . . . abusive, inflammatory, [or] fraudulent,” numerous published reports have found the site to be replete with fake reviews. The company is currently being investigated by the Advertising Standard Authority in the United Kingdom and has had complaints filed against it with the Federal Trade Commission in the United States.
One small hotel in Nova Scotia has grown tired of reviews its management views as libellous, abusive, fraudulent, and inflammatory, and also other online content from anonymous contributors that violates its privacy rights and those of its guests. Trout Point Lodge now has a publications privacy policy as part of its Registration Card agreement signed at check-in. The agreement gives the Lodge control over anything published as a result of a stay at the hotel, with some exceptions for journalists representing mainstream media.
TripAdvisor became aware of this component of the registration process, and sent the Lodge an “official notice” about 2 weeks ago, as though acting with some legal force. TripAdvisor has absolutely no right to interfere in agreements freely made between unrelated parties, says the Lodge.
Today, TripAdvisor published a warning in red font with an exclamation point on the Trout Point Lodge listing page, stating:
Message from TripAdvisor: TripAdvisor has reasonable cause to believe that this property requires guests to agree not to post any opinions or photos of their stay on review sites such as TripAdvisor without the approval of the property. Please take this into consideration when researching your travel plans.
This warning is similar in nature to other “warnings” placed on some accommodation listings when TripAdvisor allegedly believes the hotel involved to be trying to manipulate its allegedly objective popularity rating system. Based on its own monitoring of the site, Trout Point management believes TripAdvisor manipulates the rating system and it is not objective. The Lodge’s position is that if TripAdvisor wants to make this a public dispute, its side should be heard.
Trout Point Lodge management also does not agree with the warning, as it does not accurately portray the Lodge’s intention. Trout Point is not trying to prevent objective reviews with accurate statements of fact or clear-cut opinion. However the policy now gives this small business the clear-cut right to have material that it considers libellous or inflammatory removed from TripAdvisor or any other web site, including blogs. The Internet has grown into, at least in part, an uncivil sphere of communication; the social contract has been torn up with alleged “free speech” no matter how irresponsible the only value.
Trout Point management have tried having TripAdvisor remove defamatory material in the past—not only at the Lodge but also at another property they previously operated—but without success. TripAdvisor seemingly has little incentive to strip its site of useful and free third-party content, despite the statements on its “conditions” page. Such defamatory reviews are demoralizing not only to the Lodge’s owners, but also the staff and other guests.
Online reviews are often replete with misstatements of fact as well as 1-5 star ratings that would tend to damage the hotel’s reputation, for instance a 1 star rating for “cleanliness.” (TripAdvisor is well known for publishing sensational annual lists such as the top 10 filthiest hotels.) More objective sources such as professional inspectors, journalists, guide book writers, and rating agencies generally give Trout Point high marks.
An agreement freely entered into between the Lodge and its guests circumvents TripAdvisor’s own immediate copyrighting of any submission it receives. It also protected the privacy and peaceful, secluded nature of the Lodge.
Trout Point, a nature retreat in a wilderness area with no cell phone reception, has made no bones about the policy. It clearly states on both its policies web page and on its accommodation web page what the policy is and the reasoning behind it. Guests read through the policy in full at check-in, and only one has expressed qualms about signing it.
PRIVACY & TROUT POINT LODGE
In an age when every cell phone and digital device has a camera, when anonymous libel runs rampant, each day’s events are texted or tweeted, and many routinely even dine with an electronic device as their companion, Trout Point Lodge tries to remain an antidote to and respite from such commercial culture. To maintain an idyllic and secure environment of privacy and seclusion, Trout Point Lodge, Limited (TPL) asks that all guests agree to its privacy policy with regards to publications. This policy is intended as a positive measure to both provide for our guests’ ability to seek rest & relaxation and to protect both the Lodge and its guests from online attacks and defamation from anonymous sources so common in the Internet 2.0 age.
“In exchange and consideration for TPL protecting the privacy of TPL guests from unwanted publicity while on the property, guests at the Lodge agree to the following: that all publications– writings, photos, & video–via the internet or in any other form, whose subject is the result of a stay or other experience with TPL is the exclusive intellectual property of TPL, and that prior written permission to publish or post is required and shall be sought before publishing TPL-themed materials; failure to do so is actionable in a Nova Scotia court of law for breach of contract and copyright infringement; damages will be assumed at a minimum of $3000.00. The undersigned grant TPL exclusive right to request the removal of any materials from any place where undersigned have/has published or posted TPL-themed materials including travel review sites and blogs. The above surrender does not apply to mainstream print or broadcast media as defined by the Nova Scotia Defamation Act, as amended, whether or not they may also have a virtual component.”
The Lodge believes other innkeepers will find their actions of interest, and it was only when the Lodge published the agreement on its own blog that TripAdvisor published its “warning.”
EXAMPLE below of TripAdvisor possibly manipulating hotel reviews through its employees and local experts who receive a variety of things for doing TripAdvisor´s bidding. In the name of free speech and truth they seem to lie and manipulate hotel reviews!!!!!!
Also below is an Example of TripAdvisor punishment for hotels who engage in the kind of behavior TripAdvisor and its agents probably commonly engage in, the manipulation of the popularity index by interfering with the so called unbiased nature of reviews. Everyone who uses TripAdvisor should think twice about using them given what that they seem to manipulate hotel reviews for a variety of reasons, mostly commercial which we will explore in coming post. See Message below and the attempt to fabricate reviews for a Nova Scotia hotel.
“Message from TripAdvisor: TripAdvisor has reasonable cause to believe that either this property or individuals associated with the property may have attempted to manipulate our popularity index by interfering with the unbiased nature of our reviews. Please take this into consideration when researching your travel plans.”
Attempt at fabrication: from a TripAdvisor forum in 2007 where they were caught in the act!!
All was as suspected…i should have taken the inner vibes that i got from this forum…
I have to admit this is the first time I’ve reviewed a property but as I mentioned before I’ve been bitten…so from now on…I vow to review!
Are you on the correct forum? I see from your other posts that you speak about Australia. There is also a Sydney in Nova Scotia. If you are on the correct forum, which lodging are you reviewing?
i hope this is in the right place
This is the link to my original enquiry,
for some reason I don’t understand why my original question has been removed from my profile…
We left Oz just over 12 months ago…we had been based in Canberra and in Asia for 12 months before that
There is no question at your link? Just a rant about local experts you don’t like! Would love to help but it is hard to make sense out of any of this.
My apologies Aneer,
I think you will find there is a question at the top of the page…albeit not mine but did express the same concerns that I experienced!
unfortunately due to the nature of the thread my concerns re staying at the Lodge were removed…..mmmmmm…
If you read the whole thread you will gather there was some concern about the validity of reviews……at least that was the gist of the thread some time ago!
Obviously this is yet another attempt at keeping the negative post started last year to defame Trout Point Lodge at booking time alive! How many more ways will this be tried?
This is a forum about travel in Nova Scotia first and foremost!
The question of reviews has been dealt with 100 times here before.
I and others wonder who are these people, what are there real motivations, and why they are wasting every one’s time in this forum?
The question at the top of the page is whether anyone is home at Trout Point? They seem to be, I called a couple of days ago they answered and were very helpful and eager in providing me with information. Evidently they are home and open for business as usual. It is open! How many more ways can this be said. If you would like to talk about the validity of reviews you probably ought go to the off topic chatter forum! Here isn’t the place for this.
I don’t understand the problem, I’m using the travel forum to give information about a place we stayed at in NS (hardly off topic)
We stayed there, we had problems getting them to respond to the online booking system so my husband rang before we arrived….
it wasn’t what the reviews on this website cracked it up to be……a least IMHO……which is what i think the reviews sections are about..
I’ve written a review which i hope will be posted in a few days…
Aneer,
I do not understand your problem. Is is almost as if you have some kind of need to defend the property, although perhaps you behave like this for all properties in NS that get negative reviews?….or have some personal investment in this forum in particular…..it verges on paranoia….
We stayed there….we didn’t like it…end of discussion….can’t change the facts no matter what wierd spin you want to put on this!
Information is always welcome!
Where is the information?
Cryptic games are all I see! You and your friends have hijacked this forum. You don’t believe the good reviews which is your prerogative.
I can tell you from personal experience I have stayed there and it is delightful place.
The number of negative reviews for this property are very hard to believe for me! In fact I know better! The negative assault started a little over a year ago with the nasty “Is anyone home” forum thread and has continued in the forms of more negative forum postings and negative reviews by people who have no history at TA non of which has stopped since then.
Who in Nova Scotia or in the world at large doesn’t see a pattern similar to what was at TPL, an extremely negative review followed by positive reviews? This is the norm at TRIP ADVISOR.
What I am wondering is why has TPL been singled out for especially bad treatment at Trip Advisor.
Your post here are absent of travel information and to be honest just don’t add up.
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To review the TripAdvisor Forums Posting Guidelines, please follow this link:http://www.tripadvisor.com/pages/forums_posting_guidelines.html
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I
and I repeat
I, use trip advisor to get info about suitable accom when we are travelling….
For the most part i have not needed to ask questions….most of the info required has already been asked and answered…why would I ask the same question twice….whyb do i need to post travel info…it’s all there…what do you want a review of the type of car we have?
The long thread which you seem to object to happened to be on the first page when I was looking at various accom (incidentally i had read reviews in a number of travel mags which had me curious)
So when I saw the thread I thought it would be the right place to begin to ask a question (this happens quite frequently on TA….there are hundreds of people who do lots of lurking and get loads of valuable info…myself being one of them)
In the end of the day i too have stayed there and I didn’t find it all it was written up to be……I sent the review to TA a few days ago and I hope to see it in place in the next day or so….
WHAT is your problem with me writing a negative review…..I am reviewing a place I stayed without any bias
All was as suspected…i should have taken the inner vibes that i got from this forum…
I have to admit this is the first time I’ve reviewed a property but as I mentioned before I’ve been bitten…so from now on…I vow to review!
Our crawl started 3 weeks ago!
It is a review from quite recently! As you said Trout Point is open for business!
Repeat!!!!
“Next Crawl”
something is really afoul here!
Agenda…
My agenda is to review a property….actually it’s my first review which i freely admit and mostly because..you will note on your saved posts…that i had been caught before with glowing reviews and the accom not being what was presented…time to give back a little….
As I am paying for this connection i cannot be bothered wasting money discussing a a point whuich you do not sem to understand….
I DIDN”T THINK TROUT POINT WAS ALL IT WAS CRACKED UP TO BE…feel free to save this on your hard drive!
What was the date of your stay?
Do you have some personal link with this accom? Is that your gripe…
Last week!
how many nights? Did you dine there. I hope so if not you missed out on a real treat!
I look forward to seeing our review. I am always interested in hearing about fellow travelers experiences! Hopefully it will appear soon!
BTW, who are you affiliated with. The truth will be known!
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Yes, Nuke from Atlanta, on all three counts, also gets hot enough that I have air conditioning in the summer. Come on up for a visit, you’ll fall in love like so many Americans do. Lots of our cottages are owned by New Englanders, then again a lot of Germans are buying up cottages as well.
According to Trout Point Lodge’s web site they begin accepting guest this year on the 14th of May.
It was what I had remembered from previous enquiries but nonetheless confirmed it by taking a peak at their web site.www.troutpoint.com
This made me even more curious so I called the Lodge to be told that there have been no guest since last season.
Gattmom it is factually impossible that you experienced what you claim ie, that you “stayed “at trout Point Lodge “Last week”.
Learning of this I also personally encouraged the people at Trout Point to contact relevant authorities for assistance in dealing with this matter.
.
All was as suspected…i should have taken the inner vibes that i got from this forum…
I have to admit this is the first time I’ve reviewed a property but as I mentioned before I’ve been bitten…so from now on…I vow to review!
My dear Anneer,
Let me start with my affiliations…at one time I was doing some freelancefor Australian Gourmet Traveller but i have not written for them for some time. Should i send something off to them about my stay do you think?
My husband is affilitated with the Auto Association..is that ok?
I realise the website gave an opening date of May 14 (which is today) but given we were going to be in the area a few days before and the booking portal showed availability for the two days we were interested we sent off the booking form anyway. This was almost 3 weeks ago! Websites are not always reliable forms of info exchange…
When we had not received an email reply my husband decided to ring and just check whether or not they were open and had received our request or wheter we should give them a miss…we were told yes they were open…don’t worry about the opening date…they were ready and could accept us now….that was the day or so before our arrival…perhaps they are worried they took guests before the lodge was ready and the owners would find out???
Perhaps this had something to do with the quality of stay we had….of course we ate there…there is not much choice to eat elswhere…and the food was nothing to write home about….it was okay but not earth shattering
You seem to be going to a lot of trouble over one negative review…do you do this for all the various accom in NS that gets a bad wrap?
Anneer,
Shall I bring your own post to your attention…
On MAY 13TH you wrote
The question at the top of the page is whether anyone is home at Trout Point? They seem to be, I called a couple of days ago they answered and were very helpful and eager in providing me with information. Evidently they are home and open for business as usual. It is open!
and the time of your call would have possibly coincided with our stay….last week….
So….to turn around and say they open on May 14th (ie today) contradicts the information they gave to you on the phone…..
Not to mention i should think poor business practice discussing the stays of various guests with any Johnny who rings on the phone..past guet or not….abviously discretion is not a strong point at Trout Point
Anneer
I think you must be mistaken about the opening of Trout Point even though the web-site says they open on the 14th May. There is a new review for Trout Point which was posted by a new poster, the Coxes, on the 2nd May and the review says that they stayed there during May 2007.
Gosh I’ve just read Anneer’s comments about speaking to the lodge and they saying that nobody has stayed there since last season. How can the review that the Coxes wrote be true then? Something very strange is going on.
“Open for business” in this context means functioning as a business!
You and others tried to scare away clients last year by suggesting that it was not a solid place, go on and read some more of the original forum posting . The meaning used there and throughout these attacks has always been the same. Read more and you will see that it is also explained that it is a seasonal facility. So yes a functioning business which is seasonally operated.
Give up the charade! The cox’s review says their experience occurred in 2007 not that they stayed there! They say they are reacting to other reviews. Maybe they didn’t click the correct time frame box or any box for that matter. We do not know. Maybe the Coxes will come in and tell us what was going on? Maybe they called TPL to begin planning their next summer trip, I do not know. I do know that they are closed and according to the owners and staff their have been no guest since last season.
What is sure is that you didn’t stay their and that you have fabricated all of this, this according to people I know in the community and the people at TPL.
That someone stayed or didn’t at a property is an objective fact in Nova Scotia. All properties keep records and report every month to tourism.
What you are doing is a dangerous thing. I have to wonder if you are even in North America?
This has become a pattern. Unfortunately people interested in all the wonders that Nova Scotia has to offer only get this same nasty topic which has been going on since last year. There are so many extraordinary places and accommodations here. Too bad we can’t get around to talking about them!
I represent the management of Trout Point Lodge. Trout Point operates seasonally, usually from mid to late May until the end of October. This year, we will be opening later this week. We answer e-mail and telephone inquiries throughout the year, as we have done since 2000. and including the winter/spring of 2005/2006. We have never been unavailable for potential guests in eight years of operation–we were always “at home.” The forum thread referred to by GATMom–“is anyone home” is full of mistatements of fact and misinformation.
Trout Point Lodge has received no guests yet during May. We have had no guests since the final weekend in October, 2006. Today, we are just setting up the rooms with linens and bathroom amenities. During May, we have received telephone calls from guests who have stayed with us before and will be returning this year and perhaps that explains the recent review. I don’t know.
There is no factual basis to GATMom’s claim that she stayed at Trout Point Lodge of Nova Scotia. I have been here all of the month of May and no one has been received at Trout Point this month. We at Trout Point are more than taken aback by GATMom’s postings and by other forum postings and reviews that have appeared over the past year or so.
I would be happy to answer any questions from anyone and hope that TripAdvisor readers will consider a vacation in Nova Scotia, and perhaps at our wonderful wilderness retreat.
Looking through GATMom’s posts on this forum, I must also point out some other factual errors: The Great Lodge building, where our restaurant The Dining Room is located, has not served any meals since 2006. In fact, all water to the building has been turned off until this week. No food. No water.
In additiion, our online booking service has not been programmed to accept room reservations until May 14. We’ve also received no calls from anyone attempting to reserve during the first two weeks of May. Trout Point Lodge will now open later this week, knowledge of which I hope will not invite more fake negative reviews.
One again, I welcome visitors to Nova Scotia–not only to Trout Point but also to many other wonderful inns, hotels, and b&bs throughout the province. Our region–Yarmouth and Acadian Shores–holds many hidden treasures that I would be happy to discuss in another forum now that this one has, I hope, been put to bed.
Hello, I’m new to the forum, but I have heard of you in my catering magazine! I have a lovely commis who I am hoping to retain and would like to send her on a working holiday to learn cajun style cuisine. I’m thinking at the tail end of the season. I see that the Institute of Gastronomy is run by Troutpoint (at Troutpoint?) and am wondering what qualifications you offer and what University are you currently working with for affiliation.
Ciao!
mezza
The Institute is a new project of the owners, but is not a travel-related topic. If you would like information, contact them. They are currently working on a culinary education program involving study in Bordeaux, France.
Trout Point Lodge offers culinary vacations and has done so since 2000.
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All was as suspected…i should have taken the inner vibes that i got from this forum…
I have to admit this is the first time I’ve reviewed a property but as I mentioned before I’ve been bitten…so from now on…I vow to review!
We are the Coxes and we wrote the review. We called Trout Point in early May to make our reservation for this season. The phone was answered promptly and we found dates in June and July that suit our schedule. This experience did not mean that we stayed there this May–as we said in the review, we have stayed over the past five years several times, the last time being last summer. But TripAdvisor asks for the last experience date for any kind of contact–so that’s what we put. I’m afraid this lead some unscrupulous people to think the Lodge was open and to write defamatory things about this wonderful place. Shame on you, GATMOM! But now you’ve been caught! I would highly recommend Trout Point to anyone.
FACT…the website accepted my booking enquiry
FACT..my husband rang and was spoken to on the phone!
FACT…we stayed there
FACT…..it is very odd that suddenly all these odd people, including a reviewer who has never been seen on this forum to my knowledge suddenly pipes in with a defence of their own review…
FACT…I am being picked on as reviewer
GATMom
I am personally on site at Trout Point Lodge and have been all the month of May. We have received no guests. We have served no meals. We have had photographers and video photographers document the state of the facilities. Not a single room was ready for the season until yesterday.
The facts have already been stated and your statements are fraudulent. We have numerous staff members, plumbers, and other service people who can attest to these facts. We plan to pursue this matter with the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and the Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3), a partnership between the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) and the National White Collar Crime Center. We are also bringing all of this to the attention of Robert Kaufer, President of TripAdvisor, LLC. We will seek redress with the courts, including disclosure of your identity.
Once again, THE VICTIM HERE IS NOT YOU, IT IS TROUT POINT LODGE. What Nova Scotia tourism business will be next? Is TripAdvisor going to allow this forum to continue?
Cease and decist with the lies and defamation!
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To review the TripAdvisor Forums Posting Guidelines, please follow this link:http://www.tripadvisor.com/pages/forums_posting_guidelines.html
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Gone fishin’
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My partner is fishing crazy and wants to go in search of tight lines this summer – but I don’t want to be bored to tears on our weeks holiday. Anyone got any suggestions for somewhere, perhaps a bit off the beaten track (I love the wildness but like my home comforts too!) where I can find something to do too that doesn’t involve catching fish – I’m open to suggestion and if there’s a hot tub in the mix I might be on the hook, lol. If they are cool with two lads sharing too then its a deal! I’m a bit of a foodie fan and like outdoor pursuits that aren’t too strenuous.
thanks a billion
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This would be a great place for both of you http://www.margareelodge.com OR http://www.normaway.com. Make sure you ask for a cabin that has a jacuzzi at the Normaway.
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Thanks for the suggestions – I’ve been away but I’ll go and have a peek now.
Anyone else got any ideas for the mix – We’re looking for a place with a happy and friendly vibe and where we we can join in with outdoor acitivities as much or as little as we like.
Another couple of lads are thinking about coming along with us so I’d like to get as much info as I can to show them whats on offer.
ta
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Hi, I happen to like tight lines as well. If I knew when you were coming and what to call the fish on the end of that tight line, I could give you some advice. We have salmon, trout, mackeral, cod,perch,etc…Crockit
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Hey cowboyclub from P Town”
I have a few suggestions for you “
Not sure exactly what you are looking for but didn”t think it would hurt to list a few options just the same.
cliffwaters.com
whisperingwavescottages.com
saltyrose.com
take a look at “
http://www.explorenovascotia.com/ accomodations
and see if anything listed there is to your liking.
good luck,
blondie **
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Thanks Blondie – I’ll be sure to have a good look at those when I get home from the office.
Crockit – thats a very kind suggestion, but I don’t have that kind of equipment, and its not really my scene. You might get some interest from my partner though. He is the one that adores fishing, whatever the hour of the day or night and is always open to offers. The only thing that I’m in charge of is the driving and planning! What area do you think he’ll find the best action? Sea, lake or river?
CBC
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hello cbc,
As a gay person I have lurked the past week, carefully watching, a bit afraid that say what I really thought when I saw your identity appear in the forum.
If you are truly gay as you declare so loudly, don’t worry about being treated appropriately and respectfully in Nova Scotia. Nova Scotians are open minded and descent people who do not make “who one lies down” with their business.
You are puzzling. You say you want a discreet location and yet you claim to be from P-Town (not so far from Needham).
“I’ve guess you could say I have a bit of an alternative lifestyle, so its especially important for me to feel like I’m welcome when I pitch up with my guy in tow. “
“I’m hoping not to attract the attention of the odd rude troller and catch the attention of all the nice people here.”
Have you ever heard of black face? Your stereotypical verbeage does not sound like any gay person I know!
If you are not gay, then by disgusing yourself as such, you are perputrating the same kind of hateful bigotry which was so common all over years ago against black americans.
You might think it is a joke to dress up in leather and mock gays but I do not. You seem to have the same bad intentions as those who dressed in black face to amuse themselves, to mock, belttele and assure their superior socila and
political position vis a via blacks.
In these days your identity is hard to believe. Canada is a place of complete equal rights, responsibilities, and protections for gays.
With your third post ever you are using terms common to forum users like troll, troller?
Could you be one of the TALF forum groupies who have been swarming around here for about a year now or maybe you are who you say you are, ta???
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